11/20-21 Weekend Open Thread
From the Wisconsin State Journal
This wasn’t the message Wisconsin or our nation needed to hear, even if the jury correctly followed the law.
Teenager Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted on all charges Friday in the fatal shootings of two people — Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, and Anthony Huber, 26 — and the wounding of Gaige Grosskreutz, now 28, during a chaotic night in Kenosha on Aug. 25, 2020. The deadly violence followed protests, rioting and arson in response to the police shooting of a Black man, Jacob Blake, by a white officer.
The disappointing verdict is sure to embolden militant people who seek to take the law into their own hands. It also could increase and complicate self-defense claims if more people carry — and use — firearms in the streets. That’s a scary prospect.
But further violence in response to the verdict won’t help anyone. Our civil society must remain calm — in Kenosha, in Madison and across the country.
Rittenhouse is no hero, as some of his defenders pretend. He behaved like a vigilante and didn’t deserve to walk free, given his recklessness. Yet the law, unfortunately, skews in favor of shooters who claim self-defense. That needs to change.
Rittenhouse, then 17, wasn’t making anyone safer by parading through crowds of angry people with a semiautomatic rifle strapped to his chest and, according to prosecutors, pointing it at people before the conflict escalated.
What Rittenhouse and other gun-toting, self-appointed “protectors” of Kenosha needed to hear from our court system is that they are not the judge and jury when things go awry. The answer to unrest, including the torching of homes and vehicles, is a well-trained police force and the National Guard.
Rittenhouse, of Antioch, Illinois, only complicated the difficult job of law enforcement by showing up armed in Kenosha, where some of his relatives lived.
One of the men Rittenhouse killed (Rosenbaum) was acting odd and aggressive when Rittenhouse shot him. Another victim swung and hit Rittenhouse with a skateboard after Rosenbaum was shot. The third victim had a gun.
But Rittenhouse wasn’t an innocent bystander, and some of his victims assumed he was an active shooter who needed to be stopped, prosecutors said. Rittenhouse was engaging passersby with his abrupt and threatening behavior. Much of the case hinged on whether Rittenhouse had provoked the others. If carrying an AR-15 down a crowded street isn’t provocative, what is?
Rittenhouse even got off on a gun charge despite getting his weapon from a friend because he couldn’t legally purchase it. Blame the state Legislature, not the judge who dismissed the charge, for that.
Wisconsin law allows teenagers to carry firearms for hunting. But the statute is so convoluted that Rittenhouse’s lawyers were able to convince the judge that Rittenhouse could legally carry his long rifle in an urban setting where hunting isn’t allowed.
The Legislature must fix that law so immature people don’t cause more bloodshed. An untrained teenager with a semiautomatic weapon puts everyone — including police — at greater risk of conflict and harm.
The Legislature also should narrow the law that allows people to openly carry firearms. If Rittenhouse had not been flaunting his rifle, he wouldn’t have attracted so much attention, and this tragedy could have been avoided. It’s not like he was defending his home or property.
If Rittenhouse was justified in his actions, how does that apply if two people openly carry guns and point them at each other? Whose self-defense claim takes priority?
Our state should be discouraging standoffs with guns, rather than encouraging more people to arm themselves out of fear or revenge.
Policymakers, more than any jury, are in a position to set clear and reasonable rules.
The jury was under enormous pressure to decide a complicated case after hearing more than 30 witnesses over eight days of testimony. They had to follow the law as written and the instructions of the judge.
Did Rittenhouse face an unlawful threat that night in Kenosha, and was his use of force reasonable and necessary? The jury ultimately answered “yes,” and we respect their decision — even though we don’t like it.
Responsible citizens who want to discourage similar tragedies should pressure their elected leaders for smarter gun laws. We the people, through our democracy, must demand that this troubling saga never happens again.
What we are witnessing is a system functioning as designed and protecting those it was designed for.
My heart still breaks for the communities and families whose grief now compounds, and the countless others who will be denied and deprived in similar scenes across the country.
— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) November 19, 2021
This is a weekend open thread. See you in the comments.
fire away…
A little light weekend music
Related…
So, High Times is still around. I figured they folded up their printed tent years ago. 🙂
Actually, it’s doing quite well these days.
Gaetz is a piece of imbecilic RWing crap from the FL Panhandle. Sure hope I can escape one day.
An intern!!!!! Interns actually have to work for one, Usually for low pay. All the crybaby kid is a shiney object for the R’s to fight over. Once his usefullness is over he’ll be dropped like used TP. Politics as usual in DC
Sinema holds firm in support of the filibuster, imperiling late voting rights push
The fact that they are not offering reform back to the talking filibuster is speaking loud and clear. Joe Biden does not want to end the filibuster, so let’s push him to reform it.
And i’m sure Bernie realizes, as do Most in the halls of Congress, that is not just two people holding everything up
of course his behavior was provocative!!!
can you imagine if a black man went down to a riot of proud boys pointing an A.R. 15 with a history of talking about shooting people?
Oh my God! TBH, I find media coverage of this unbelievable. the jury certainly could have found this provocative and at the least he should’ve been charged with reckless endangerment.
At least one of those guys was trying to stop someone that was shooting people. For God’s sake. Literally.
oh yesh, and thanks benny ❤️🌝🌖😍🦃🦃🦃🦃🦃🦃🦃🐋🐻🌗🤩✨💜🌊🦋🐿🐳🐻❄️🐻❄️
yesh! 😂
misused the word “riot.”. protest. geez
The if game, only if the guy with the skate board survived being shot, whole new testsmoney and maybe a different verdict.
If A black guy that was excersing the same 2 A rights he would have shot/killed by the police/ Proud boys and oath keepers and they would’ve patted each other on the back with a good job. After all some of the kenosha PD were glad they were “helping”
The craporate media loves it just like they love tRump. They make $$$$$ off it, don’t forget.
the 4th, But awesome!
A few points to make so it may not flow real well.
My uncle whom was a career cop told me long ago if you want to use self defense either with the castle docturne or a situtation out side the house he said shoot to kill as dead men dont testify thus increasing your chance of aquittal.
Basicslly when the judge would not allow video of him saying ‘ i wish i had my AR so i could shoot those looters. –Something along those lines anyway so to me he was hell bent on shooting someone. this happened before the shootings.
the judge not allowing the use of Victum eventhough the word fit. The judge reminded me of an Archie Bunker type.
throwing out the underage gun charge told me it was game over and the proud buy wanna be was gong to walk.
I guess my final comment on this is a dangerous precident was set in Wi. Shoot to kill claim i was in fear for my life you get off. (george zimmerman) Damn those skittles are deadly.
To me this kids call of duty fantasy came true he got to kill in real life and got away with it. Since his 18 he can join any right wing gun nut group and be welcome with open arms. With his high priced laywer saying he’s being treated for PSTD he’s got his next get out of jail card.
Since was found innocent i wonder who gets poession of the AR?
I’m an embarrased citizen of WI due to our political situtation and now this.
FL is the land of Sick Rott, Matt Gaetz and George Zimmerman. How do you think I feel, wi63?
I’m a very frustrated futurist right now!!!!!!!!
GOT humor.
Believe me, it would be different if it was a Brown Recluse–very venomous.
Aww. A jumping spider. I absolutely love them! Totally harmless to humans.
phatkhat: great to read you! Hope you and your krewe are well. 🙂
You better be running for that house seat, girlfriend!
It also means that peaceful protesters should carry machine guns… you know, for actual self defense.
.
Guess which one died due to being a threat?
What is this dude’s definition of “highly-educated”?
Exactly the problem. We need to restore public education in this country.
T and R, Ms. Benny!! 🙂 I had some fun on the NC commentariat with the Rittenhouse crap. Some yo-yo/troll/idiot tried to claim this young yahoo was in the right. So, I asked the cretin, what’s the purpose of an AR-15? And doesn’t AR stand for Automatic Rifle? So, it’s designed for very near sighted people to hunt, huh?