HomeUncategorized12.20-21 Pre Kris Kringle Open Threads

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jcitybone

Thanks orl!

Many of his fellow senators are definitely pissed to be leaking stuff like this about what this asshole says in private.

In recent months, Manchin has told several of his fellow Democrats that he thought parents would waste monthly child tax credit payments on drugs instead of providing for their children, according to two sources familiar with the senator’s comments.

Continuing the child tax credit for another year is a core part of the Build Back Better legislation that Democrats had hoped to pass by the end of the year. The policy has already cut child poverty by nearly 30%.

Manchin’s private comments shocked several senators, who saw it as an unfair assault on his own constituents and those struggling to raise children in poverty.

Manchin has also told colleagues he believes that Americans would fraudulently use the proposed paid sick leave policy, specifically saying people would feign being sick and go on hunting trips, a source familiar with his comments told HuffPost.

Benny

Just as Manchin takes off and goes to GOP gun toting fundraisers.

jcitybone

https://www.businessinsider.com/schumer-jabs-manchin-tanking-spending-bill-fox-2021-12

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said that Democrats would move ahead with a vote on President Joe Biden’s Build Back Better bill despite objections from Sen. Joe Manchin that effectively end its prospects of passing.

Schumer, a New York Democrat, in a letter to colleagues release Monday, said that senators would vote on a revised version on President Joe Biden’s signature $1.6 trillion social and climate change bill early in the new year.

The statement contained a thinly disguised jibe at Manchin, who said he would not be supporting the bill in a Fox News interview,blindsiding Democrats who thought they had the votes to pass the package.

“Senators should be aware that the Senate will, in fact, consider the Build Back Better Act, very early in the new year so that every Member of this body has the opportunity to make their position known on the Senate floor, not just on television,” Schumer wrote.

The last part seemed aimed at Manchin, whom many — including the White House — thought was in favor of the bill until he told Fox host Bret Baier that he could not support it.

His reversal effectively dooms the proposal by removing one of the 50 Democratic votes in the Senate needed to get it through. Schumer said that the legislative process would continue despite its bleak prospects.

“We are going to vote on a revised version of the House-passed Build Back Better Act – and we will keep voting on it until we get something done,” wrote Schumer.

Benny

Which means they will still pander to Manchin and Sinema.

Paul ADK

Gotta triangulate with somebody. That’s just the Clinton playbook.

jcitybone

In his Fox interview in which he said no to the current BBB, Manchin claimed that he wanted longer lasting programs costed out for ten years instead of many shorter ones. Actually there are progressives like David Dayen who think the BBB should do fewer things better and longer as opposed to more things done less well and which could easily not be renewed. It’s probably the only hope of getting anything passed, including any climate legislation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/manchin-biden-alliance-rift/2021/12/19/674b6e02-60e3-11ec-a7e8-3a8455b71fad_story.html

Administration officials on Sunday started searching for alternative avenues to resuscitate the social spending plan Biden has put at the center of his agenda. White House officials on Sunday were in touch with Rep. Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.), the chairwoman of the center-left New Democrat Coalition, about the group’s proposal to fund fewer programs for a longer period of time, according to an aide to the group.

But it was not immediately clear to many Democrats what the path ahead will be. And although Psaki said the White House would continue to press Manchin to be “true to his word,” and Manchin promised to “continue working with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to address the needs of all Americans,” Sunday’s extraordinary exchanges signaled a recognition on both sides that the large-scale compromise Biden has long sought is, in all likelihood, no longer possible.

Paul ADK

Everyone has their vulnerabilities and I would venture to guarantee that Manchin’s is his corruption. He refused to vote for BBB because he’s been paid by GOP special interest mega donors not to. Flat out sold his Senate vote, does it get any more corrupt? Oh, right! He sold out every poor person in his state to do it. And in WV there are a whole lot of poor people who would be so much better off with BBB. That’s as corrupt as it gets.

polarbear4
polarbear4

I’m sure manchin has his support in both the Senate and the House, too. And the president has not taken any steps to curb his power. Manchin is awful and his vote represents other awful people we call our leaders

Paul ADK

I’d say Biden is a massive disappointment but he’s not, really. We’ve known who he is for decades, and that was never so obvious as when the DNC cleared the field for him, going into the SC primary. That right there told us everything we ever needed to know about Joe Biden.

Benny

Benny

https://www.axios.com/manchins-reset-339d6454-5bdf-4f23-a4b6-48fd8545ed5f.html

If Sen. Joe Manchin bolts the Democratic Party, he’d be more likely to switch to independent — and caucus with the Democrats — than become a Republican, people close to him tell Axios.

Driving the news: Manchin’s surprise body blow to President Biden’s Build Back Better agenda set off new speculation across the Democratic Party — including inside the White House — that he may leave the party next year.

The timing and destination of Manchin’s declaration: “I can’t get there. This is a no” — on “Fox News Sunday,” days before Christmas — seemed designed for maximum impact. But it wasn’t immediately clear to what end, or what had prompted it.

The White House was caught off guard and responded with an angry statement.

Manchin has consistently denied any interest in leaving the party, most recently after Mother Jones reported in October that Manchin had told associates that he had an exit plan. “I can’t control rumors, and it’s bull**** … capital B,” Manchin told reporters.

Why it matters: A formal defection by Manchin could make passing parts of Biden’s $1.75 trillion plan all the more difficult for Democrats.

But it would also bring clarity to Biden’s political predicament: With 50 votes, his party formally controls the Senate. In reality, any single Democrat can take the party hostage on any given issue.

Yes, Democrats control the floor schedule and can muscle through judges and ambassadors, but only with a fair amount of procedural pain.

As long as Democrats pursue big legislative changes through reconciliation, they face big risks from any single member.

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) effectively rewrote the Democrat’s tax provisions — and killed a top line corporate rate hike — to offset their spending plans.

The big picture: Progressives were worried all year that they would whittle down their spending ambitions to bring Manchin aboard, only to have him pull the rug out once the negotiations got real.

They knew that their only leverage was holding up the $1.2 trillion infrastructure package, and they were right. As soon President Biden signed the infrastructure bill into law, they lost all leverage and Manchin was in the driver’s seat — though it’s not clear they could have brought Manchin along even if they’d held out longer.

Progressives told Axios’ Alexi McCammond they want Biden to fight back against Manchin aggressively — an instinct reflected in White House press secretary Jen Psaki’s statement.
Some want the president and progressives including Sen. Bernie Sanders to travel to West Virginia to meet directly with Manchin’s constituents and champion the benefits of lower prescription drug costs, universal pre-K and other child and health benefits the legislation could have in the state.

“I would take this as a call to arms,” said Joseph Geevarghese, executive director of Our Revolution, a Sanders aligned group. “This is Manchin saying, ‘I’m going to play hardball until the very end.'”

Anger at Manchin coursed throughout the party Sunday and some Democrats with races next year pivoted from attacking GOP rivals to going after Manchin.

Rep. Val Demings (D-Fla.), seeking to unseat Sen. Marco Rubio, told supporters in an email that there’s an urgency to expand the party’s majority because “we can’t let any one senator stand in the way of progress like the Build Back Better Act… will you support my campaign to become the 50th vote Democrats need in the Senate … ?”

Between the lines: Many Democrats told Axios on Sunday that they don’t believe Build Back Better is truly dead and that it’s a matter of figuring out what can actually pass in 2022.

Lawmakers, leadership aides and outside strategists told Axios’ Sarah Mucha and Andrew Solender they believe the likely path is one touted by Rep. Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.), the chair of the House’s 97-member centrist New Democrat Coalition, who is proposing regrouping around a refined proposal with fewer programs that last a longer duration of time.

Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) tweeted he would “do my part to help bring everyone back to the table.” Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D-Va.) said in a statement it is “unacceptable” for Manchin to abandon “productive” talks.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wrote in a “Dear Colleague” letter Sunday night: “While it is disappointing that we may not have a law by the end of the year, we are hopeful that we will soon reach agreement so that this vital legislation can pass as soon as possible next year.”
Be smart: No one knows if Manchin can be convinced to support a pared-down version of Build Back Better, not even the White House.

Benny

Manchin blames White House staff for failed negotiations

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) on Monday blamed White House staff for the breakdown in negotiations over President Biden’s Build Back Better agenda and doubled down on his commitment to tanking the bill.

Why it matters: One day after he sent the Democratic Party reeling by announcing he will not support the $1.7 trillion package, Manchin leaned further into his opposition to the bill, making clear he has no plans of reversing course.

He was however, noncommittal on whether he could potentially get behind a scaled down version of the measure.
Driving the news:”This is not the president, this is staff,” Manchin told West Virginia radio host Hoppy Kercheval in a 14-minute MetroNews radio interview Monday morning.

“I just got to the wit’s end,” he said, adding that White House staff “drove some things and they put some things out that were absolutely inexcusable. They know what it is.”

“The bottom line [is] I knew that we could not change, it was never going to change.”
What he’s saying: Manchin also said if Democrats want to try and tackle a smaller package, they would need to put new legislation through committees and hold hearings on the programs.

He also criticized leadership’s strategy, arguing they wrongly assumed “surely we can move one person, surely we can badger and beat one person up.”
“Well, guess what? I’m from West Virginia. I’m not from where they’re from, and they can just beat the living crap out of people and think they’ll be submissive, period,” Manchin said.

Manchin also said he made clear to Democratic leadership that he disagreed with their approach of treating legislation “as if you have 55 or 60 senators that are Democrats, and you can do whatever you want.”

“I said, I’m not a Washington Democrat,” Manchin told Kercheval.

Asked about whether there is still a place for Manchin in the Democratic party, Manchin said: “I would like to hope that there’s still Democrats that feel like I do.”

“I’m fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. Now if there are no Democrats like that, they ought to push me where they want me.”
The bottom line: Manchin made clear in his lengthy interview that he is far apart from the rest of the party when it comes to not only the Build Back Better package, but on how far-reaching certain legislation can be.

The interview reinforced that any attempt by the party to fulfill their promises of passing sweeping social and climate reforms will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, with Manchin standing in the way.

Benny

Benny

Benny

Benny

Paul ADK

Manchin is very afraid of Bernie Sanders, huh, I wonder why that might be? I would love to see Bernie go on a major speaking tour of West Virginia, making sure he hits every hill and holler. Manchin is feeling some pressure, that needs to be ratcheted way up.

polarbear4
polarbear4

president manchin is right on.

wi63

What a full steaming pant load of —–by Manchin

e7d[1].gif
magsview

“I just got to the wit’s end,” he said, adding that White House staff “drove some things and they put some things out that were absolutely inexcusable. They know what it is.”

How coy of Manchin, who is usually an egotistic windbag – that tells me that “it” is something most likely unreasonable of Manchin (to oppose to so strongly), or else he would have said what “it” is.

wi63

Theirs an unofficial stock tracker that does the same trades as Pelousy, i guess if you cant beat them join them. Its coming from the “kids” that did the gamestop scenario

Benny

Manchin had this well planned, including deflecting the problems from himself to the WH. Wall Street hates surprises.

jcitybone
magsview

Why aren’t people yelling from the rooftops how Manchin is bad for ‘the economy’?

Benny

Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death
Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death

Great history lesson with 3 of my favorite historians. I’ll watch this again.

Benny

West Virginia Chamber of Commerce supports Manchin’s rejection of Build Back Better

The West Virginia Chamber of Commerce on Monday announced its support of U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., in saying he will vote against the Build Back Better bill.

A majority of West Virginians have been shown both in recent polling and at a recent tele-town hall hosted by the chamber to be against the bill’s passage, according to a release from the chamber.

During the town hall, thousands of West Virginians had the opportunity to speak and ask questions. No one who spoke wanted Build Back Better to pass, according to the release.

“Sen. Manchin has made the best possible decision for our state and nation,” said Steve Roberts, chamber president. “The bill specifically hurts our West Virginia energy production and pointedly raises taxes on natural gas, which is vital to our well-being and is an important ingredient in many manufacturing processes.

“The bill favored out-of-state auto and truck manufacturers and hurt our own in state producers. It seriously undermined our childcare services and specifically negatively targeted the church-based providers who give us 53% of our nation’s childcare services.”

The chamber also noted Manchin’s concerns on the bill’s economic impact. He has said he cannot support the bill amid heightened inflation and the ongoing COVID-19 uncertainty.

I’d like to see that town hall they were talking about. The data doesn’t bear out what the C of C says.

Benny

Benny

Benny

Benny

Bonddad got bojo’d at DK:

https://www.dailykos.com/user/bonddad

jcitybone

That’s too bad. He probably should have just gone after Dem leadership and he might have been ok. They are the ones to blame for this mess (well other than assholes Manchin and Sinema) not progressives.

Benny

He had 20 flags in his tip jar, but 110 recs. None of his subsequent comments were flagged. That’s a TO, not a bojo. But perhaps bonddad got into a crossfire with Markos. Hard to know.

Benny

jcitybone

Good

magsview

Soooo… not this (from May 24, 2021, after announcing she would not challenge Demings to go after Rubio), anymore?

Murphy plans to seek reelection to her Orlando-area seat and will help the state party with voter registration, organizing and strengthening the grassroots.

“We’ve had too many close losses in Florida, and so I wanted to use my experience from winning tough races to help the party prepare itself,” Murphy said.

jcitybone

Regarding the vaccination discussion yesterday

Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death
Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death

Nuff said.
I say this as a person who has never had a non-mandatory vaccination (eg. flu) in my life (82 yrs). My vaccination phobia is from a pre-school experience when my cousin, who lived with us, and was a few months younger than me, had to be hospitalized with typhoid fever. A nurse was sent to our house each week to give all the children a shot. I remember us crying on the day that the nurse was to come and my mother trying to put us to sleep before she arrived. So, I always had an aversion to shots.

But when you show me numbers like above, I’ll take the shot. And I do use vitamin D3, Zinc, etc. Plus my sister makes a toddy which includes lemons, oranges, garlic, tumeric root, ginger, and whatever – to which I add my shot of Grand Marnier and I’m good. Lol.

jcitybone

😋I’m sure the GM makes it all go!

Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death
Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death

Yep. It keeps the covid in check.

wi63

🥂

Benny

I have needle phobia more than vaccine phobia. During my early childhood, nurses would jab when taking shots in the glutes and it hurt like hades. I can’t handle blood draws out of my arm because my veins are narrow, deep, and roll easily, so I get the blood draw out of the veins in my hands. Goes a lot faster.

wi63

I had the needle phobia thing as well, but beetween the 3 shots and vitamin supplements that the Mrs whips up for me i feel pretty good.

jbob
jbob

Disinformation from Vax Holes and Mask Holes.
I have been watching with horror the ongoing crap over at the C-99 site.
They have group of 8 or 10 anti-vax people spreading and amplifying all the worst misinformation that is out there.
I posted a few times that allowing that site to be a source for this dangerous activity is a total failure of the free speech experiment on that site.
The owner disagrees and feels it is OK to be a place where this disinformation is spread and reinforced by a small group.
I was truly dismayed to see the post here yesterday along those same lines!
My personal feelings are that all the anti vax and anti mask jerk offs should go ahead catch covid-19 then hurry up and die.
This is a brutal position that I do not take lightly.
It is a hold over from my younger days as a production manager on rock tours.
Back then if you came into my production office at a gig spouting any kind of BS I would say something like “hurry up and die because you’re using up my good breathin’ air”! Now get the “F” out of my face or I’ll have you thrown out of the venue by security.
I feel the same way about mask and vax holes!
Since I can’t have them removed, I just wish they would die!

Benny

Hi Jbob,

C99 has always entertained a little of the tin foil hat. I think of the Nest as being in between c99 and Markos site, which bans anyone from defecting officially from the Democratic Party.

magsview

The vaxx ‘debate’ has split our family up and it pisses me the hell off.

The anti-vax people complain about being made to feel like lepers then accuse anyone not buying what they’re selling of being stupid and/or gullible, cowardly ‘fraidy cats who willingly bow to tyrannical authoritarians.

I’m also pissed off at Pfizer for making a product that appears to need at least 3 shots per year to be remotely effective.

Benny