now the full court biden press. disagree strongly that biden et al is not facism. I know how well holding one’s feet to the fire works. That’s how we got here. The surprises me. Like fighting for those things in a biden admin.
Stub
We’re supposed to be voting for Biden to stop fascism. If all we’ve got to protect us from fascism is the DNC we’re in big trouble.
My question is when the RNC and DNC are owned by one in the same corporate fascist masters why do people defend one or the other party when they conspire to work against their best interest’s?
with all these surrogates coming out strong for the rapist, he has a lot better chance of winning. they have their own significant constituencies that will listen.
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders suspended his presidential campaign Wednesday.
Though the 78-year-old did not emerge as the Democratic nominee in either of his two presidential bids, his campaigns have reshaped the party’s politics and policy in significant ways. Here’s a look back at several key moments from the past five years:
1. Sanders Announces His 1st Presidential Bid
The key thing about this moment is that when it happened, it didn’t feel key at all.
In April 2015, most Democrats saw former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton as the party’s inevitable 2016 nominee. President Obama was urging Vice President Joe Biden not to mount a bid, and many other prominent Democrats, including Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, decided not to run either.
Enter Sanders, who wasn’t even a Democrat, and who had spent most of his two-decade career in Washington, D.C., as more of a backbench gadfly than anything else. Sanders had begun to emerge as a national figure several years before, when he protested a bipartisan tax deal with an eight-hour filibuster.
Most campaigns launch with a big rally in the candidate’s home state. Not this one. Sanders walked outside the Senate, held a 10-minute news conference with a scrum of reporters, and went back to work. The first words of his “political revolution”? “We don’t have an endless amount of time. I’ve got to get back.”
Torabs
Kind of painful at this point to recap the past 5 years to be honest.
Hoping in 5-10 more years we can recount this era as the start of something much bigger.
Bernie Sanders was always demanding too much, the argument went. “What he’s proposing is very much pie in the sky,” Joe Biden, now the unopposed Democratic nominee, said at the start of March. “If you promise the moon and you can’t deliver the moon, then that’s going to be one more indicator of how we just can’t trust each other,” Sanders’s 2016 opponent, Hillary Clinton, told Ellen DeGeneres this February. The refrain of How will you pay for it?—when discussing health care, free tuition, green jobs—became so familiar during debates and nightly news hits that it bordered on absurd.
At best, that contention—that Sanders’s vision of a less apocalyptic future for everyone required to work for a living was so far-fetched that Democrats shouldn’t pursue it—was a profound failure of imagination and a cowardly preemptive compromise in a political landscape already defined by so much senseless inequality and despair. At worst, it was the logical rejoinder of the same wing of the Democratic Party that engineered ugly schemes like welfare reform and rushed to deregulate Wall Street in the 1990s. Though neither of Sanders’s bids for the presidency succeeded, they exposed in their course the smallness and callousness of that Democratic elite, and broke their chokehold on the party, even if only for fleeting moments.
As he fell further and further behind in the race in the weeks after Super Tuesday, Sanders and his supporters often said that the campaign had nevertheless won the ideological battle. While right now that is a thin consolation prize, it also happens to be true: In primary exit polls and other surveys, large blocs of the public have said they support Medicare for All, labor unions, a $15 minimum wage, and other major tenets of Sanders’s campaign. And even beyond policy specifics, one of the most moving aspects of Sanders’s presidential run, at least to me, was its unwavering commitment to demanding far more than the ruling class has said that working people deserve. Underlying every one of the Vermont senator’s purportedly pie-in-the-sky ideas was the simple belief—somehow simultaneously humble and utopian—that every single person is owed a living.
The concept of entitlement has been cast about as a pejorative for some time. It’s been used as racist rhetorical poison against “welfare queens,” and more recently on a wide-scale level to disparage a generation who entered adulthood during a ruinous recession, with unprecedented levels of student debt and miserable job prospects, and occasionally dared to question their lot. (It’s also no coincidence that “entitlement program” is a policy term for all the social safety net measures that the Democratic Party, save Sanders, was consistently willing to send to the chopping block.) Entitled people, we’re told, assume that certain comforts are automatically due to them even before they prove their worth, and the Sanders campaign seized that idea with gusto for the working class. The belief that every person is entitled to the components of a decent life, including housing, health care, education, and civic inclusion, galvanized more than 13 million primary voters in 2016 and 7 million this year. As Jacobin’s Shawn Gude wrote in 2015, “The discourse of entitlement is a discourse of rights, of human agents claiming what’s theirs instead of asking permission from the powerful.”
The Internet will now ring out with think pieces attempting to explain either why Sanders made it as far as he did or why he failed to close the deal. Maybe if he had been more aggressive, or more conciliatory, or more concise, or more voluminous, he could have turned things around. Maybe, if he had reiterated once more what he meant by democratic socialism, he could have won over the skeptics who heard his desire for a Scandinavian-style safety net as code for executions in Central Park. Maybe if he had given a sweeping speech about race—as Barack Obama did in 2008, and as Cornel West and others reportedly advised Sanders not to do in 2020—he could have won a larger share of the African-American vote. Sanders and his core supporters will forever blame “the establishment” for his loss; Sanders’s critics will counter that the voters simply considered Biden more electable, a result that they will ascribe not to collusion but to democracy. If the coronavirus pandemic had descended sooner, maybe it would have redounded to Sanders’s benefit; or maybe the moment would have seemed ripe for a candidate who had a plan for that, or a candidate running on a universal basic income. The truth, although it doesn’t make for a tidy think piece, is that all of these hypothetical claims have some merit. We tend to overlearn the lessons of each election, pretending that the outcome reveals some essential truth about our national character. But the 2016 election doesn’t make all women unelectable, and this year’s Democratic primary doesn’t obviate the popularity of universal health care. George McGovern’s loss in 1972 doesn’t prove that a leftist can’t win any more than Al Gore’s loss in 2000 proves that a moderate can’t win. If Sanders’s luck had held through Super Tuesday, this would not have meant that the Democratic Party was irredeemably in the thrall of socialism; the fact that a plurality of the base has settled for Biden, for now, does not mean that the Democrats are fundamentally and forever the party of throwback centrism. “I ran for the Presidency because I believed that, as the President, I could accelerate and institutionalize the progressive changes that we are all building together,” Sanders said on Wednesday, formally announcing the end of his campaign from his house in Burlington, Vermont. “While the path may be slower now, we will change this nation.” Then, presumably, he turned off the camera, set the table, and told the old story of an unprepossessing prophet who didn’t quite make it to the promised land.
If Sanders’s luck had held through Super Tuesday, this would not have meant that the Democratic Party was irredeemably in the thrall of socialism; the fact that a plurality of the base has settled for Biden, for now, does not mean that the Democrats are fundamentally and forever the party of throwback centrism. “
No, we are definitely in the throes of fascism, and unfortunately, DNC is a willing authoritarian partner in this, despite all of the bull lip service. I call it bull because most members of congress and this president have large investments in the stock market, and they are their lord protectors. They haven’t pinned down King John.
Spring Texan
If Sanders’ “luck” held through Super-Tuesday, they’d have found some other way to screw him and us. There was never a path to victory as they are ruthless and powerful. Wall Street rules.
Torabs
Yes, the Internet will ring because, as humans, we’ll want to ascribe some meaning or glean some understanding from this painful moment. Now say something useful, dammit! 😉
Love you Ilhan, but I cannot subscribe to the magic wand theory of electoral politics. Demand more, especially of our erstwhile allies in the phony anti-fascist alliance.
What we saw in Wisconsin, in short, was a state party doing whatever it takes to cling to power even if a majority of voters want it out — and a partisan bloc on the Supreme Court backing its efforts. Donald Trump, as usual, said the quiet part out loud: If we expand early voting and voting by mail, “you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again.”
Does anyone seriously doubt that something similar could happen, very soon, at a national level?
This November, it’s all too possible that Trump will eke out an Electoral College win thanks to widespread voter suppression. If he does — or even if he wins cleanly — everything we’ve seen suggests that he will use a second term to punish everyone he sees as a domestic enemy, and that his party will back him all the way. That is, America will do a full Hungary.
What if Trump loses? You know what he’ll do: He’ll claim that Joe Biden’s victory was based on voter fraud, that millions of illegal immigrants cast ballots or something like that. Would the Republican Party, and perhaps more important, Fox News, support his refusal to accept reality? What do you think?
So that’s why what just happened in Wisconsin scares me more than either disease or depression. For it shows that one of our two major parties simply doesn’t believe in democracy. Authoritarian rule may be just around the corner.
To conduct the Wisconsin Experiment in real time on the global stage is the most brazen attack on democracy in our lifetimes since African Americans and Freedom Riders risked lynching and murder for voting rights in the 1950s and ‘60s. This vote was forced knowing full well that Milwaukee County is 26 percent black yet accounted for 73 percent of coronavirus deaths as of early April. African Americans make up only 7 percent of Wisconsin’s population, but accounted for 40 percent of coronavirus deaths.
The inescapable calculus was that the tragic presence of the coronavirus in Milwaukee would make many voters stay home, an open attempt at voter suppression. If but one person ends up dying from COVID-19 from standing in line for two and three hours to vote, the responsibility lies squarely with Republicans in 2020 as sure as it did with the Ku Klux Klan 60 years ago.
We should have learned from the civil rights movement that no American should ever again have to risk their lives to vote. The Wisconsin Experiment, aided by a conservative state supreme court that refused to stop the election and the conservative US Supreme Court that refused to extend absentee voting, shows us how far these forces will go to deny both history and science.
Given that some level of social restrictions of the coronavirus crisis will likely be with us for months to come, Wisconsin must be seen as a wake-up call for the November election. It shows we need a doubling and tripling of our efforts to assure free and fair elections, with online registration, mail-in voting options, and safe in-person voting procedures across the country.
That is a tall order in the face of a conservative machinery long dedicated to rolling back voting rights as the demographics of the nation move toward people of color representing a majority of the populace. But we have no choice but to face the challenge.
As the crisis thickens, a picture of how the virus is ravaging the city has come into view carrying with it a sobering realization. Coronavirus may not in itself discriminate, but its outcomes certainly do. It has inflicted its terrible toll not so much on New York City, but on the two cities it contains.
“Coronavirus has exposed New York’s two societies,” Jumaane Williams, the public advocate who acts as the official watchdog for New Yorkers, told the Guardian. “One society was able to run away to the Hamptons or work from home and have food delivered to their door; the other society was deemed ‘essential workers’ and made to go out to work with no protection.”
Different boroughs, even different neighborhoods within each borough, are experiencing coronavirus almost as though it were two different contagions. In wealthier white areas the residential streets are empty; parking spots that are fought over in normal times now stand vacant following an exodus to out-of-town weekend homes or Airbnbs.
In places like the Bronx – which is 84% black, Latino or mixed race – the sidewalks are still bustling with people making their way into work. There is still a rush hour. “We used to call them ‘service workers’,” Williams said. “Now they are ‘essential workers’ and we have left them to fend for themselves.”
The public advocate pointed out that 79% of New York’s frontline workers – nurses, subway staff, sanitation workers, van drivers, grocery cashiers – are African American or Latino. While those city dwellers who have the luxury to do so are in lockdown in their homes, these communities have no choice but to put themselves in harm’s way every day.
If you superimpose a map of where frontline workers live within New York over a map of the 76,876 confirmed cases in the city, the two are virtually identical. In Queens, the most intense concentration of Covid-19 infections are in precisely those neighborhoods with large numbers of essential workers.
One telling detail: at least 41 subway and bus workers have died from coronavirus. A diversity review by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) in 2016 found that 55% of its 72,000 employees were black or Latino, and 82% were male – which is also telling as more men than women are dying from the virus.
As COVID-19 cases and deaths continue to mount in New York City, the epicenter of the United States’ outbreak, researchers are uncovering clues about which neighborhoods have been hardest hit by the disease — and which characteristics of those neighborhoods put residents at risk.
New analysis by researchers at New York University’s Furman Center, which studies housing, neighborhoods and urban policy, found that strongest neighborhood factors linked to high COVID-19 rates were having a large share of black and Hispanic residents; having a high proportion of overcrowded apartments and having a large share of residents without college degrees.
Staying at home is one of the strongest ways that public health officials have been attempting to get a handle on COVID-19, which has no cure or vaccine and appears to have a higher fatality and infection rate than the seasonal flu. Sheltering in place is easier for some than others, experts say.
In addition to being less likely to work from home, residents without degrees are more likely to rely on public transportation during the pandemic, creating an added exposure risk for them.
In New York neighborhoods with the highest COVID-19 infection rates, an average of 28.7% of residents had college degrees compared to 47.3% of residents in neighborhoods with the lowest infection rates, the analysis, which examined publicly available information, found.
In reality, the dream was always an illusion, and its collapse was already underway. That’s because oil fracking has never been financially viable. America’s energy independence was built on an industry that is the very definition of dependent — dependent on investors to keeping pouring billions upon billions in capital into money-losing companies to fund their drilling. Investors were willing to do this only as long as oil prices, which are not under America’s control, were high — and when they believed that one day, profits would materialize.
Even before the coronavirus crisis, the spigot was drying up. Now, it has been shut off.
A deal, and higher oil prices, might help the industry. But they won’t fix its fundamental problem with profitability. Energy independence was a fever dream, fed by cheap debt and frothy capital markets.
All that’s left to tally is the environmental and financial damage. In the five years ending in April, there were 215 bankruptcies for oil and gas companies, involving $130 billion in debt, according to the law firm Haynes and Boone. Moody’s, the rating agency, said that in the third quarter of 2019, 91 percent of defaulted U.S. corporate debt was due to oil and gas companies. And North American oil and gas drillers have almost $100 billion of debt that is set to mature in the next four years.
It’s still unclear where most of this debt is held. Some of it has been packaged into so-called collateralized loan obligations, pieces of which are held by hedge funds. Some of it may be on bank balance sheets. Investors in the equity of these companies have already seen the value of their holdings decimated. Pension funds that have poured money into private equity firms may take a hit soon, too. All we know for sure is that fracking company executives and private equity financiers have made a fortune by touting the myth of energy independence — and they won’t be the ones who have to pick up the pieces.
I had to stop listening to this one from MICHAEL MOORE, as much as I love him. Voice to text always capitalizes Michael Moore’s full name – – no one else and apparently not in the possessive. lol
anyway, he’s strong on Biden now, on moving forward, or at least it seemed that way to me. Maybe I’ll try again when I feel a little better.
Regardless, debating counterfactuals is only useful for interpreting the world. And for supporters of the socialist senator, the point has always been to change it. What this crisis might have done for the Sanders campaign is an interesting question; what opportunities it still presents for advancing progressive reform is an important one. And there is some reason to believe that the present emergency is (at least) as promising a vehicle for bottom-up social change as Sanders’s candidacy once was.
The senator’s advocacy for single-payer health care over the course of the 2020 race did little to increase public support for that policy; in fact, over Medicare for All became 24 percent less popular among Democratic voters between March and November of last year in Quinnipiac’s polling (a decline likely attributable to sustained attacks on the program from Sanders’s primary rivals). By contrast, between the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic and the end of March, support for Medicare for All jumped by nine points in Morning Consult’s survey.
Most promisingly, the pandemic is now broadcasting Sanders’s most vital message — that America’s working people deserve more than they’ve been given, and are (collectively) more powerful than they realize — at a volume too loud for plutocratic propaganda to drown out. The coronavirus has forced the U.S. government to inform grocery-store clerks, warehouse workers, delivery drivers, and crop hands that they are among our society’s most “essential” members — even as many of their employers have revealed a callous indifference to their personal safety. Together, these developments have fostered a wave of worker militancy, with warehouse strikes disrupting Amazon deliveries, and GE workers walking out in hopes of compelling their bosses to shift production away from jet engines and toward ventilators. This is the stuff that change is made of. A progressive movement capable of credibly threatening primary challenges would nudge Pelosi’s caucus leftward; a labor movement capable of credibly threatening to shutter Amazon’s supply chain, however, could turn Joe Biden into FDR.
If Democrats manage to win power this November, an advanced stage of the COVID crisis will almost certainly still be around to greet the new administration come January. According to the Congressional Budget Office’s latest projections, America’s unemployment rate will remain above 9 percent at the end of 2021. The damage that coronavirus is doing to the health-care industry’s finances, meanwhile, is likely to yield widespread premium hikes and hospital closures next year. An America in which the private sector durably fails to provide full employment or affordable health care is one in which the left will find broader sympathy for the Green New Deal and Medicare for All. And a well-organized progressive movement — proficient in the disparate arts of cajoling elites in smoke-filled rooms and emboldening workers on picket lines — could translate that public support into political revolution.
In theory, I would concur. And it’s possible Biden is willing to bend to provide some crumbs. But he is married to the banksters. That won’t change.
If I were Biden, I’d be saving my money to support my son. He’s about to be dragged through the mud. The things the corporate Dems were saying about Levi, Bernie’s son, and his early Vermont years, they will pale in comparison as what the GOP is going to do with Biden and his family. They plan to hold parts of the GE in the Senate chambers, and I think Bernie knows this, which is why he’s trying to put the finger in the very leaky vessel, and not harbor blame.
One thing that might save Biden’s candidacy is if there are no national debates.
Well it’s not that Biden and establishment Dems are going to give ground out of the goodness of their hearts. They have to fear what will happen to them if they don’t. We need to elect more progressives everywhere, and put the fear of god in more moderate Dems that they will get voted out. Progressives have zero leverage with a Trump and Republicans.
The most crucial election coming up is in Colorado where progressives should go all out to get Romanoff to beat Hickenlooper in the primary.
If byedone wins all that means is Jill will be the unofficial 1st woman president or Bydones corporatist handler’s will tell her how to script Bydones policies.
Torabs
This feels like something written by a Warren supporter.
My examination of voting patterns in this year’s Democratic primaries shows the real break between Sanders and Biden is not at college graduation, but at age 40.
Data from the Fox News Voter Analysis/AP Votecast of Super Tuesday found that Sanders finished first among voters between the ages of 30 and 39, with 43 percent of the vote. Among those in their 40s, Sanders only won 31 percent of the vote.
This pattern continued in the remaining contests that voted in March. Sanders won 60 percent of the votes among thirty-somethings in Arizona, but only 39 percent of those in their 40s; a 21 percent difference. There were similar large differences between the views of those ages 30 to 39 and those 40 to 49 in Missouri (59 percent to 38 percent), Illinois (54 percent to 35 percent) and Florida (45 percent to 24 percent). The numbers show those 40 and up were much less likely to vote for Sanders.
Americans in their 40s have experiences with America working to the benefit of all its citizens. Those in their 30s do not. The experience of millennials is one of anxiety, political crisis, the seeming inability to get ahead economically and a political system that has focused its attention elsewhere.
Millennials will only get older and their successor generation — Generation Z — shows early political signs that they are just as progressive. These two groups will increase their share of the electorate. They were outvoted in 2020 by older voters with a very different experience of American life. But in the next contested Democratic presidential primary, these voters will play an even larger role, and their twenty years of backing progressive campaigns may finally bring their choice to the front, and with it, significant changes in not only American politics and policy.
I had thought the correlation would be more on climate change than anti-war sentiment. 2008 was the ripe time for that position. Of course, Obama listened to Clinton and Biden, and never fully retreated.
wpDiscuz
If you missed it yesterday:
💓
I can’t watch it a second time. Maybe tomorrow or the next day. The progressive dust is really blowing in my face and causes my eyes to water.
Cheer up fellow Progressive Friend. 🙂 We have plenty of work ahead of us.
Thanks Orl. Hugs back!
Me too. It’s all too sad and I don’t think things are one bit hopeful. Although I will continue to fight for people I don’t know. But in despair.
Tip Jar
A peaceful revolution, I hope.
now the full court biden press. disagree strongly that biden et al is not facism. I know how well holding one’s feet to the fire works. That’s how we got here. The surprises me. Like fighting for those things in a biden admin.
We’re supposed to be voting for Biden to stop fascism. If all we’ve got to protect us from fascism is the DNC we’re in big trouble.
DNC=just another version of corporate fascism.
Along with TOP.
My question is when the RNC and DNC are owned by one in the same corporate fascist masters why do people defend one or the other party when they conspire to work against their best interest’s?
TC again!
yes, shortcomings. AND #SmashTheMachines
with all these surrogates coming out strong for the rapist, he has a lot better chance of winning. they have their own significant constituencies that will listen.
Maybe…in October. But dubious. Many of the Berners are indies and they don’t see the differences in parties. Who can blame them?
8 Key Moments That Helped Define Bernie Sanders’ Presidential Runs
Kind of painful at this point to recap the past 5 years to be honest.
Hoping in 5-10 more years we can recount this era as the start of something much bigger.
The Profound Simplicity of Bernie Sanders’s Vision
The powerful deliberately mangled our language, and dumbed down the public so they wouldn’t notice it.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/campaign-chronicles/bernie-sanders-at-the-end-of-the-world
No, we are definitely in the throes of fascism, and unfortunately, DNC is a willing authoritarian partner in this, despite all of the bull lip service. I call it bull because most members of congress and this president have large investments in the stock market, and they are their lord protectors. They haven’t pinned down King John.
If Sanders’ “luck” held through Super-Tuesday, they’d have found some other way to screw him and us. There was never a path to victory as they are ruthless and powerful. Wall Street rules.
Yes, the Internet will ring because, as humans, we’ll want to ascribe some meaning or glean some understanding from this painful moment. Now say something useful, dammit! 😉
Sorry. I can’t.
Love you Ilhan, but I cannot subscribe to the magic wand theory of electoral politics. Demand more, especially of our erstwhile allies in the phony anti-fascist alliance.
T and R, LD!! Sent you an email. 🙂
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/opinion/wisconsin-primary-democracy.html
Somehow I want to spit on this NYT writer. You all know the reasons why. What a hypocritical rag.
Both parties don’t believe in democracy. At all. It’s a farce.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/04/10/election-travesty-wisconsin-wake-call-nation
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/10/new-york-coronavirus-inequality-divide-two-cities
Burying bodies on Hart Island, in the Bronx, on Thursday.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/nyc-stark-contrast-covid-19-infection-rates-based/story?id=69920706
“appears to have a higher fatality and infection rate” pretty sure it’s more than appearance.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/opinion/coronavirus-texas-fracking-layoffs.html
I had to stop listening to this one from MICHAEL MOORE, as much as I love him. Voice to text always capitalizes Michael Moore’s full name – – no one else and apparently not in the possessive. lol
anyway, he’s strong on Biden now, on moving forward, or at least it seemed that way to me. Maybe I’ll try again when I feel a little better.
Another reason why I think there is more opportunity for progressives with Biden and a Dem Congress than with Trump and a split Congress.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/bernie-sanders-political-revolution-coronavirus-covid-19.html
In theory, I would concur. And it’s possible Biden is willing to bend to provide some crumbs. But he is married to the banksters. That won’t change.
If I were Biden, I’d be saving my money to support my son. He’s about to be dragged through the mud. The things the corporate Dems were saying about Levi, Bernie’s son, and his early Vermont years, they will pale in comparison as what the GOP is going to do with Biden and his family. They plan to hold parts of the GE in the Senate chambers, and I think Bernie knows this, which is why he’s trying to put the finger in the very leaky vessel, and not harbor blame.
One thing that might save Biden’s candidacy is if there are no national debates.
Well it’s not that Biden and establishment Dems are going to give ground out of the goodness of their hearts. They have to fear what will happen to them if they don’t. We need to elect more progressives everywhere, and put the fear of god in more moderate Dems that they will get voted out. Progressives have zero leverage with a Trump and Republicans.
The most crucial election coming up is in Colorado where progressives should go all out to get Romanoff to beat Hickenlooper in the primary.
We haven’t finished primary voting down here in the tourist-trap state. It was scheduled for August. Up in the air now.
Biden will likely win. Fractional voting algorithms and trump’s absolute ostentatious awfulness. bloomberg’s $$$
pb4: OR hasn’t voted yet. My state has not finished state/local office primary voting. We don’t know what will happen?
If byedone wins all that means is Jill will be the unofficial 1st woman president or Bydones corporatist handler’s will tell her how to script Bydones policies.
This feels like something written by a Warren supporter.
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/492156-sanders-fate-sealed-by-the-over-40-crowd
Wonder (maybe there is but I didnt look) what the correlation to anti-war sentiment is with that age breakdown.
I had thought the correlation would be more on climate change than anti-war sentiment. 2008 was the ripe time for that position. Of course, Obama listened to Clinton and Biden, and never fully retreated.
#SmashTheMachines
over 40s have more $$$$