HomeUncategorized4/24-25 Weekend Open Thread

108
Leave a Reply

avatar
Photo and Image Files
 
 
 
Audio and Video Files
 
 
 
Other File Types
 
 
 
53 Comment threads
55 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
7 Comment authors
orlbucfanjcityboneAint Supposed to Die A Natural Deathmagsviewwi62 Recent comment authors

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
polarbear4

and no firewall! t&r, benny! great share for FB, where many are unaware that it’s not a real vote.

polarbear4


https://pluralistic.net/2021/04/24/peloton-usury/#going-nowhere-fast
for the short thread in article form

p.s. this is after lobbying by Pelaton so they can sell their $3,000 exercise bike to people who can’t afford them.

polarbear4

i haven’t seen it, but Fred does have her finger on the pulse.

magsview

Hmmmm, there are certainly more than a “few dozen” internet denizens who supported FTV and are not happy with DSA’s stance on that. I’m a dues-paying member of DSA, and I supported FTV,,, but I certainly wasn’t going to pick that hill to die on, don’t have time to argue with people on social media about it. But I was disappointed by DSA’s stance.

DSA’s Moment of Truth

The writer of that link, Shamus Cooke, makes many very good points.

The weak arguments used to discredit Force the Vote betrayed years of common sense around organizing around Medicare For All — and organizing in general. The key anti-Force the Vote arguments can be summarized as “now isn’t the time,” “the demand isn’t strategic,” and “Jimmy Dore [the comedian/podcaster who invented the strategy] can’t be the messenger.”

Perhaps the worst argument against Force the Vote came from DSA, whose leadership waited a month to even issue a statement.

What I am “suspicious of”, Aaron, is the continued effort to denigrate those who do/did support FTV, painting them as a small (‘but very vocal!’ they often will add) minority, and accusing those who don’t fall in line people who also “court the far right”, etc. Maybe Aaron should spare a moment to consider if it is HE who is being manipulated in some way to yield to power and money.

Personally, I’ve never come across someone who supports both FTV and also courts the right. Are there some bad actors in the mix trying to stir up trouble, very possibly, there are bad actors all over the place, doing their best to manipulate people to their ends, for policical power and/or money.

I think a more effective strategy, for what feels like a kind of progressive establishment at times, might be to acknowledge that one can both be progressive AND support FTV. Instead, a certain segment of the left seems intent on continuing to paint people who prefer a more feisty approach, such at FTV, as somehow illegitimate, and thusly turning their backs on potential allies instead, and turning to the right in effect, whether they want to admit that or not.

polarbear4

i guess this whole thing boils down to who you think is doing the bullying, and why I’ve mostly stayed away from it. i got bullied to hell and back for questioning dore’s behavior, even though i was FOR FTV. i got called some very nasty things.

and i guess it’s both sides, but i tend to see the people i love, who were heavy into, continually haranguing and hanging on to and rehashing the whole thing and now saying AOC is just like Pelosi.

i just wish both sides would call a truce. it really does hurt when this whole thing has resulted in many more people now saying they won’t even vote for Nina.

Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death
Aint Supposed to Die A Natural Death

Personally, IMHO, the ftv folks, led by Dumb Dore started a stupid attack on AOC and anyone who either didn’t adhere to their strategy or didn’t adhere to the aggressive attack they took to take down AOC and ended up in the warm embrace of Tucker Carlson. But they can’t stop there. Gotta take down DSA while they’re at it. They know what’s best as evidenced by all they’ve accomplished for the progressive movement to date.

magsview

I don’t think anyone was trying to “take down AOC”, I haven’t seen that at least, the whole thing was a clumsy effort at applying pressure.

If DSA crumbles (it won’t) from a bit of criticism then it wasn’t worth a hill of beans anyway. DSA is known for direct action, so the reaction of the ‘upper management’, if you will, of DSA was weak (and therefore disappointing).

But I respect your position and don’t mean to be argumentative. It’s all been quite discouraging.

This is the last paragraph of DSA’s statement, let’s break it down a bit:

“We are socialists,”

“and we are organizers,” (I would agree with that)

“so we know that there are no shortcuts to liberation.” (whaaat? pffft, eye roll)

“In the fight to euthanize the private health insurance industry and bring 1/5 of the economy under public control we are up against the most well-funded opposition of any reform in American history.”
(a bit dramatic, but ok)

“We must be sure that we are organizing with a long-term strategy to build our power.”
(how about take the “We must be sure” part out-how can you “be sure”? Instead just say “we are organizing with a l/t strat..blah blah”? There’s a kind of narrowing of permitted efforts in that sentence)

polarbear4

there are def people trying to take AOC down. dore said he’s coming after her and there are a lot of people related to FTV that now will not even vote for Nina.

it’s maddening. probably not as many as they like to think. i regularly get called out for Nina support tweets, though.

you might not associate as much with that crowd, mags. i don’t either, anymore, but, as i said, i really like Brie Brie and Katie H. and Ryan Knight and others and hope they all return to fighting the good fight. Katie H. seems to have left it behind more than others.

Brie & co. could do a lot more for Nina, unless I’m missing it, instead of continually rehashing things and stirring up arguments about how hypocritical and liberal anyone who doesn’t agree with them is.

I’m sure the other side is just as guilty–i just don’t follow them so i don’t see it much.

agree the DSA stumbled with that statement.

just tired of people being accused of not caring about people for having their own POV.
honestly–and this is on both sides–it’s yuge egos wanting people to do things their way. that’s not how it works.

my new saying: losing expectations, gaining the world.

magsview

I support AOC’s efforts and I think Dore should be able to speak his mind without getting cancelled. Just because I support AOC doesn’t mean I agree with all of her methods and same for Dore. They both live in different worlds, AOC is trying to stay relevant in DC and positive during a time of establishment Dems being in power, while Dore is a comedian who doesn’t need to worry about being ‘diplomatic’-does that mean he should get away with being a bully? of course not. I wish people in his immediate circle called him out more and tbh I wish AOC wasn’t quite so effusive in her praise of certain Dems.

polarbear4

dore told halper to fuck off, iirc.

no one should stand for that, imho.

he can speak his mind without shouting over everyone and cussing people out.

if he’s going to be on a People’s Party Advisory Board, , he’d better get some diplomacy. again, imho. i have withdrawn from my strong support for a party that celebrates him.

you’re right, tho. hard to have these pretty big disagreements in the nest. but we’re all big kids and it can deepen our mutual respect and love. at least that’s what i hope for–still struggling with the how. big hugs.

orlbucfan

We Nesters are a small group compared to the TWITter posses. LD started the site 6 years ago, and we all were very familiar with threats and flame wars. We get into disagreements on here–lawdy, it’s politics and comes with the territory. 🙂 But, it gets dialed down before it gets out of hand. That is what I like about the Nest.

polarbear4

polarbear4

polarbear4

perfect distillation of neolibcons, too.

polarbear4

polarbear4

orlbucfan

T and R, Ms. Benny!! 🙂 Hope Carter Peterson wins.

polarbear4

polarbear4

magsview

Very sad 🙁

polarbear4

if he’s a hill type, why are progressives rallying behind him? or did i get that wrong?

p.s. i’m not well-informed enough to come down for either one, but certainly think Scott deserves a look. i don’t think he’ll win, not with all the money behind yang (bloomber, et al).