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Don midwest
Don midwest

Glenn Greenwald and Liz Franczak on Glenn’s podcast. A transcript is up and I am about half way through it. They are discussing Bernie’s failure in the election cycle this year. What changed from 2016 to 2020

One insight I just got was that the dem party has been moving to the right — I didn’t realize this

and

Liz Franczak: Yeah, but it’s also like we don’t have a left movement that is comfortable saying ‘Emily’s List or Planned Parenthood are structurally fighting against women’s health care’, right? Because they are. Planned Parenthood and Emily’s List worked very hard to make sure we don’t have Medicare for All. Now, if you want to secure women’s health care in this country, you do it through universal health care.

Glenn Greenwald: Yeah. So let me ask you about this critique then, because I mean, I think that this does get to the heart of one of the questions in which I’m most interested is: did the Sanders campaign fail – in the sense of not being the nominee – because it made mistakes that either were the byproduct of just strategic mistakes that campaigns make or that Bernie was an imperfect candidate or the wrong candidate or the wrong vehicle for this kind of a movement to emerge, or did it fail because it’s just, it wasn’t a winnable fight, like no matter how perfect the campaign would have been or the candidate would have been, just can’t win this kind of a campaign in the Democratic Party, given all the structural obstacles you describe.

And one of the things I look at is Trump in 2016, which you compared to Biden in ways that I think are valid. But you can also look at what Trump did as being the challenge Bernie failed to do, which was he just battered through the Republican establishment, you know, viciously mocking and condemning and insulting and demeaning one establishment representative after the next, starting with Jeb Bush and then Marco Rubio and then finding when they got desperate Ted Cruz until there was no one left standing.

[CLIP: Trump at Primary Debates attacking Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz]

And he successfully channeled this hatred on the part of the Republican voting base toward all these institutions that had long been the Republican establishment, the Chamber of Commerce and like the military industrial complex.

Like there’s no left-wing movement to talk about the Democratic establishment, not as like wayward friends who have just gone a little wrong, who like are kind of imperfect, but as like the enemy that needs to be fought and destroyed, and like Bernie just isn’t that person. And then the question is, I don’t know, is the solution going forward to find that person? I mean, it’s been hard for anyone on the international left in the democratic world to find that right person.

Liz Franczak: Yeah. I mean, I wonder… It’s you know, I think there’s kind of like two prongs there because I think it is true that he ran at least much more vocally against, you know, as he calls it, the establishment, against Hillary, right? I think some of that, I would imagine some of that has to do with his personal feelings about Joe Biden versus his personal feelings about Hillary Clinton.

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/watch-our-new-weekly-video-commentary-and-interview-program-system-update-debuts-today/

polarbear4

we’re not magas tho. people have their own nastiness that they want bernie to have and they get all huffy cuz he’s not them. and we haven’t failed yet.

OzoneTom
OzoneTom

Right. Senator Sanders would be the last one to “burn it all down.” He appears to believe that he can make the system work again.

On Planned Parenthood I think that I have mentioned it here previously that in my opinion the power of their leadership depends on the status quo. Much of any need for their organization would go away with Senator Sanders plan and thus their power.

humphrey

There is a long list of entities that are not our friends who only want to maintain their control and or influence with regards to the democratic party. It includes Planned Parenthood, Emily’s List,Human Rights Campaign and most Labor Union leadership.

humphrey

The part that I found most interesting was the interview with Kyle Kulinski. He brought up some interesting points that are revealing as to what Bernie did right and his mistakes which are not helping the cause.

Stub
Stub

I disagree with their analysis. Bernie didn’t lose because of anything he or his campaign did wrong. He lost because of voter suppression and vote stealing. That’s the big news.

polarbear4

Don midwest
Don midwest

Continuing the Glenn Greenwald first podcast with the second guest

There has been a lot of discussion between Glenn and Kyle before this point

Kyle Kulinski: I want to beat Donald Trump. So that’s why I’m stressing these these final two pieces of the puzzle, which I think were the most important, which could have given Bernie a potential victory. Namely, you have to make the electability argument and make it in a way people understand. Compare Biden to Hillary Clinton. Compare Biden to John Kerry. Say, every time we run the so-called safe choice, it doesn’t work. I’m the actual safe choice. You have to say the word. You have to make it, make sure everybody understands it. And then you also have to make sure that you embrace that label moderate, because people generally view themselves, even though they agree with Bernie on the individual issues, they don’t think of themselves as socialist. They don’t think of themselves as lefties. They’re just normal people who go to work and take care of their families. And if you describe yourself as a moderate while you talk about these policies, that’s the permission that they need. And I’ll say this, Glenn, and you and you referenced this earlier, but, the moment that I knew we were in deep, deep trouble and we were probably going to lose is the day after Super Tuesday when the momentum of the race totally shifted and Bernie took a shellacking. The very next day he’s doing a press conference and he’s asked a question point blank from a reporter softball down the center of the plate.

“Hey, do you think Joe Biden can be Donald Trump?” And he didn’t even hesitate. And he says, yes, I do. And that’s that’s when I knew that that he didn’t understand the momentum shift in the race and he didn’t understand that he was ceding one of the two most important arguments that he needed to make in order to win.

Glenn continues then Kyle

Can somebody run in the Democratic Party, channeling real anger against the Democratic establishment and the Democratic leaders, or are Democratic Party voters simply too happy with, and satisfied with, the way they kind of worship Elizabeth Warren and swoon when she goes on Saturday Night Live, and the way to this day that when Barack Obama posts some kind of a Hallmark tweet, they talk about him with religious-like reverence. Is the Democratic Party electorate simply too admiring of, too attached to, their leadership to be receptive to messaging that says that the party leadership is corrupted and bad?

Kyle Kulinski: No, I think that’s too fatalistic an argument, because when you look at the numbers, young people overwhelmingly came out for Bernie. I’m talking about a split of like 80, 20. And even when you look at when you go to the demographic of 44 and under, he’s still winning with like 70 percent. So, you know, Joe Biden has massive, massive electoral liabilities going into a general election.

Glenn Greenwald: None of which Bernie was willing to talk about.

they continue discussion of the media and other topics

again here is the link to the transcript of the podcast

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/watch-our-new-weekly-video-commentary-and-interview-program-system-update-debuts-today/

Don midwest
Don midwest

Shaun King

he was trending on twitter because it looks like he went after some dems who said they were for M4A, but have been silent lately. I am not at all sure about what I just said, but is is a quick comment on why he has been under such attack on twitter

you may recall that he was featured on TOP/DK (dailykos) and ran into problems there. Since then he has been outspoken

and there was an editor who screwed up an article of his leading to his firing, and a big fight to clarify the issue, including support from Glenn Greenwald, and then he got his job back.

Shaun took a while to support Bernie, but as far as I know, he is a strong supporter

I went to his twitter feed which is very active, he has over 1 million supporters, and it looks OK to me. Things that readers here would be in agreement with

I am only making this comment because it seems to me to be a big bash from establishment dems and republicans and an attempt to be against progressive policies

How many paid trolls are ready to be activated at any time that those in power say: Go For It

And an ongoing attempt to influence minority voters. Confuse the hell out of them and say that the establishment is a safe choice in the time of Trump

Don midwest
Don midwest

a couple of hours later, Shaun King no longer trending on twitter

a new trend item

#USPS Employees

post office employees need procreative gear and hazard pay

humphrey

humphrey

Don midwest
Don midwest

From Shaun King’s twitter page

these were all retweeted by Shaun

Don midwest
Don midwest

Institute for Ecological Civilization

Excellent podcast

Never heard about this group before.

A young Oxford PhD who wrote an outstanding dissertation “The Political Theology of Bruno Latour” linked this podcast and gave it rave reviews.

It begins with one of the participants saying that the pandemic will have an effect on the level of WWII and possibly bring the end of the neo liberal economic order.

I have just started listening to it

I tend to be a high level, 50,000 feet as they say, so the big picture things like this speak to me maybe more than others

In this vein, Bernie is part of a major global change. Even the elites in the US are unable to stop the major changes underway as we speak.

What will be happening next week? How soon will the US lead the world in deaths from the pandemic? Will that finally bring down US exceptionalism? The world already knows that they can’t look to the US for leadership any more.

in any case, here is the link to the podcast

magsview

A problem is though is that if the U.S. ends up leading in deaths, the neolibs will just blame Trump and not address the root cause.

humphrey

humphrey

Don midwest
Don midwest

Newest Oldest Most Voted

just noticed these actions at the top of the comments

they are very helpful to see if a comment was noted by someone

before finding these, I had to reload the entire blog to see if there had been any action

and most important is the highlighted new comments

and that new comments start at the front

humphrey

Don midwest
Don midwest

went to the twitter feed of Charlie Kirk

his book is “The MAGA Doctrine”

an all out Trump follower

a couple of his tweets

i don’t see any need for anyone else to go there

orlbucfan

nothing like a twitter idiot advertising how stupid he/she/it is. Glad I don’t post on it.

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